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	<title>Comments on: The Secret Side of SEO</title>
	<link>http://www.johnon.com/245/secret-side.html</link>
	<description>I think there's an opinion on that subject lying around here somewhere....</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.johnon.com/245/secret-side.html#comment-78382</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 21:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.johnon.com/245/secret-side.html#comment-78382</guid>
					<description>The difference between SEO and strategic SEO is that one optimizes for the search engine and the other optimizes for the search engine with respect to competitors, corporate objectives and customers needs and wants.

You contradict yourself in #5/#6.  The technology labyrinth is the most dynamic market that exists – YES.  Waiting as it pertains to any part of SEO is nonsense, strategically or otherwise. Certain off the shelf consultants would have you believe in #5 because it means less work for said consultants.  And as you sit and wait for results, your competitors are leaving you in the dust.

I work with national and global clients on strategic SEO campaigns.  I only rest when the objective has been achieved.

Kind Regards,
Gregory

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;Johnn replies:&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;  Greg I am hoping we have a slightly different working understanding of SEO in this case. If you are saying you never stop, because you have a pre-set plan and continue to execute on it, then ok. But if you are saying you simply keep going without ever pausing to allow the outcomes to reveal their successes (or failures), we disagree. There are several facets of search placement that I have found to be less-than-deterministic. We have to make changes and leave them alone before we can re-tune them. That doesn't mean we 'stop" other aspects of an SEO effort... it just means that we stop THAT process to await an outcome, before we can firmly commit to the next stage of that aspect.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;By my read #5 and #6 do not contradict. But I can see how for a service provider (especially an agency or firm committed on contract)  they might appear to contradict, because it is so hard to adapt in real time to the changes taking place (hence my reference to "yet another change order"). I don't believe the SEO contract model works for clients. It works for service providers, for sure, but it only seems to work for clients when things are not changing. &lt;/em&gt;
Remember too I am in this game for the long term success (client site or my own site). I'm not addressing short term engagements promising a particular outcome, as much as long term SEO efforts designed to get a site ranking and holding strong in its SERP. Again, I can see your point if from a different perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference between SEO and strategic SEO is that one optimizes for the search engine and the other optimizes for the search engine with respect to competitors, corporate objectives and customers needs and wants.</p>
<p>You contradict yourself in #5/#6.  The technology labyrinth is the most dynamic market that exists – YES.  Waiting as it pertains to any part of SEO is nonsense, strategically or otherwise. Certain off the shelf consultants would have you believe in #5 because it means less work for said consultants.  And as you sit and wait for results, your competitors are leaving you in the dust.</p>
<p>I work with national and global clients on strategic SEO campaigns.  I only rest when the objective has been achieved.</p>
<p>Kind Regards,<br />
Gregory</p>
<p><strong><em>Johnn replies:</em></strong><em>  Greg I am hoping we have a slightly different working understanding of SEO in this case. If you are saying you never stop, because you have a pre-set plan and continue to execute on it, then ok. But if you are saying you simply keep going without ever pausing to allow the outcomes to reveal their successes (or failures), we disagree. There are several facets of search placement that I have found to be less-than-deterministic. We have to make changes and leave them alone before we can re-tune them. That doesn&#8217;t mean we &#8217;stop&#8221; other aspects of an SEO effort&#8230; it just means that we stop THAT process to await an outcome, before we can firmly commit to the next stage of that aspect.</em></p>
<p><em>By my read #5 and #6 do not contradict. But I can see how for a service provider (especially an agency or firm committed on contract)  they might appear to contradict, because it is so hard to adapt in real time to the changes taking place (hence my reference to &#8220;yet another change order&#8221;). I don&#8217;t believe the SEO contract model works for clients. It works for service providers, for sure, but it only seems to work for clients when things are not changing. </em><br />
Remember too I am in this game for the long term success (client site or my own site). I&#8217;m not addressing short term engagements promising a particular outcome, as much as long term SEO efforts designed to get a site ranking and holding strong in its SERP. Again, I can see your point if from a different perspective.
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		<title>by: john andrews</title>
		<link>http://www.johnon.com/245/secret-side.html#comment-9119</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 22:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.johnon.com/245/secret-side.html#comment-9119</guid>
					<description>Paisley never replied. He has so much to say everywhere, I wonder why not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paisley never replied. He has so much to say everywhere, I wonder why not?
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		<title>by: Going beyond the technical SEO stuff &#171; Learning SEO - Search Engine Optimization and Marketing</title>
		<link>http://www.johnon.com/245/secret-side.html#comment-8935</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 03:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.johnon.com/245/secret-side.html#comment-8935</guid>
					<description>[...] There are a couple of good reads about going beyond technical SEO over at johnon.com and searchenginewatch.com. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] There are a couple of good reads about going beyond technical SEO over at johnon.com and searchenginewatch.com. [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: Adam Rehbinder</title>
		<link>http://www.johnon.com/245/secret-side.html#comment-6501</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 09:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.johnon.com/245/secret-side.html#comment-6501</guid>
					<description>Thx for an interesting 

Regarding advise no 1 I would say its pretty much true. Google can in fact even link page sessions on PHP sites. The most important thing must then be to make the link attractive for clicking and then of course have the link send the user exactly to the page of interest.

Have you ever seen frameset pages with only one entry page and only one page title for the entire site... Make relevance and actually providing interesting and relevant stuff available for the sites potential customers. If you do google will rank your page accordingly. How do I know? Well I have used rougly the same techniques while following the forums since 1997 and both Google and MSN still follows my leash. Relevance rules simply because search enginges wants quality.

Regards, Adam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thx for an interesting </p>
<p>Regarding advise no 1 I would say its pretty much true. Google can in fact even link page sessions on PHP sites. The most important thing must then be to make the link attractive for clicking and then of course have the link send the user exactly to the page of interest.</p>
<p>Have you ever seen frameset pages with only one entry page and only one page title for the entire site&#8230; Make relevance and actually providing interesting and relevant stuff available for the sites potential customers. If you do google will rank your page accordingly. How do I know? Well I have used rougly the same techniques while following the forums since 1997 and both Google and MSN still follows my leash. Relevance rules simply because search enginges wants quality.</p>
<p>Regards, Adam
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		<title>by: john andrews</title>
		<link>http://www.johnon.com/245/secret-side.html#comment-5843</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.johnon.com/245/secret-side.html#comment-5843</guid>
					<description>Thanks for the comment. Do allow me to address your suggestion that #1 and #2 are "outdated and false". I'd like to understand you better.

Are you saying #1 is "outdated and false" because you believe it is important to get every page indexed, you believe in working probability (more pages is better long tail coverage), or because of details in the use of SDI/SSID/ID or frames or flash (exceptions) or because of other aspects (keywords, UI) I consider part of the business case?

Are you saying #2 is "outdated and false" because you believe, as an experienced agency, you know the money terms for a specific niche?

As much as #4 seems like fluff to you, it reflects my experience dealing with "agencies" who guide their clients along a path of enrichment that is too often their own enrichment. I know that's not you guys, but maybe you can clarify your comment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment. Do allow me to address your suggestion that #1 and #2 are &#8220;outdated and false&#8221;. I&#8217;d like to understand you better.</p>
<p>Are you saying #1 is &#8220;outdated and false&#8221; because you believe it is important to get every page indexed, you believe in working probability (more pages is better long tail coverage), or because of details in the use of SDI/SSID/ID or frames or flash (exceptions) or because of other aspects (keywords, UI) I consider part of the business case?</p>
<p>Are you saying #2 is &#8220;outdated and false&#8221; because you believe, as an experienced agency, you know the money terms for a specific niche?</p>
<p>As much as #4 seems like fluff to you, it reflects my experience dealing with &#8220;agencies&#8221; who guide their clients along a path of enrichment that is too often their own enrichment. I know that&#8217;s not you guys, but maybe you can clarify your comment?
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